Classical Music: What has happened to the symphony audience?

Sunday, October 08, 2006

What has happened to the symphony audience?

On Friday morning, I witnessed what I think is the all-time smallest audience at the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra I have ever seen. Lately, Friday concerts -- evening and morning -- have appeared to attract about 800 people. This weekend, it looked to be about half that many -- 400 people.

This is indeed sad, for an orchestra that is playing better than ever. There were no busloads of school children, which in the past has boosted the attendance. I didn't even see any children who are home-schooled. And of course, at an 11 a.m. concert, the audience you're going to get consists of people who do not work or are retired -- a limited crowd at best.

So the big question is -- should the symphony continue this morning series, or even have Friday night concerts any more? Does the orchestra have too much "product" for its customers? Maybe it needs to scale back its concerts entirely -- and make up the services providing music lessons to kids at CPS.

What is the orchestra doing to change its image in a rapidly changing world? I think the plasma screens (now gone) were a good thing -- but they won't bring the crowds out, week after week.

Do they need a massive marketing campaign? What about all those kids (and parents) who participate in huge band and orchestra programs in the burbs? How do you reach them? Is the orchestra stuffing every mailbox of every college kid every weekend at our local universities -- like they do in other cities?

On Friday, as I looked out on this sad state during what was a truly fine concert with guest maestro James DePreist and pianist Louis Lortie, I thought that perhaps the orchestra should have made this a dress rehearsal, with free tickets, and they might have gotten more people. At the VERY LEAST, they should be filling some of those seats with FREE tickets to young people, rather than pricing schools out of symphony concerts by charging them to attend. The schools have enough expense just hiring buses.

What's the solution??

68 Comments:

at 10/09/2006 03:30:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Boy, that is the elephant in the room, isn't it? Too much product for the quantity of interested audience. Your ideas are great; the basic question is whether the current staff is even capable of mounting a successful marketing campaign, or whether anything, short of massive ticket giveaways, will help get the seats even halfway filled.

An audience of 400 is a disgrace. What a waste of talent.

at 10/09/2006 05:35:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I read your comments about downtown Cincinnati (Oct. 4). Yes, it is sad. Cincinnati is a wonderful city, but it is falling on hard times. Why? I will add just a few thoughts even though you are already aware of this.

I live outside the City. I used to come into the downtown area frequently. But now I am concerned about safety, traffic, parking, and the like. Each time I go to Music Hall, I frankly do not want to park at any distance and walk in that area. I don't feel safe.

It is the same in the downtown. The streets are often dark, and I am invariably approached by panhandlers or beggars who may or may not have real needs. There are often groups of fairly wild teenagers roaming the streets, especially in the summer when school is out. I witnessed a group of kids on 6th street, wearing huge white t-shirts, stop a bus, storm through the doors and into the bus, and back out. I don't know what happened, but I quickly went the other way back toward Fountain Square.

Another evening I was accosted in a parking garage by a teenager who threatened me while asking for money. Fortunately, a security guard emerged from somewhere and drove him off.

And the news? Each evening, it seems, there is another shooting. It doesn't matter where. It sounds as if it is everywhere.

It seems to me the police have all but given up. Each time they enforce the law, a national focus group, Jesse Jackson, or some other person descends on the City and gives it a national black eye.

I do not have any answers, but I think Cincinnati has to come to terms with pandhandling and how to maintain a strong police presence downtown all the time.

at 10/09/2006 09:42:00 PM

Anonymous said...

The New York Times today (10/9) has an interesting article about how numerous NYC arts organizations, including the Metropolitan and City Operas, are offering deep discounts on tickets to draw in new customers. It seems to be working for them. Different city, of course. But it may be time to match ticket prices with marketing gimmicks in a real way, to achieve a critical mass of young audiences who will come once, and then come again, because they like it, and can afford it, too.

As one person in that NYT article said, if we don't do something, we'll have audiences of old men with dentures and no hair. And when they die, we'll have nothing.

Ouch.

at 10/10/2006 07:54:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

It's a huge dilemma. I saw that Times article, and I think discounting some tickets is a good idea. The idea is to give them a taste and hope they come back. The other problem is that this generation does not buy subscriptions. So how does one sell single tickets to fill a big hall, week after week? And it's true that some people still feel intimidated by Music Hall -- as being elite and not for them. Why not have a free "open house" at the beginning of the season? Some orchestras (I believe Cleveland is one) do that every year.

at 10/10/2006 11:33:00 AM

Anonymous said...

For anyone who doesn't know, Cincinnati already has Enjoy the Arts, a comprehensive program for discounting arts events. The ETA programs are considered to be a national model for discounting events for young people (and the not-so-young). See http://www.etastart.com for more information.

at 10/10/2006 03:29:00 PM

Anonymous said...

The CSO is playing at it best level, Jarvi is doing an incredible job, but management is not performing at nearly the level to provide him the audience he deserves. They are going to loose him. It is a tragedy to see revenues melt as they do each year. If only the CSO leadership had the marketing skills and will corresponding to its musical Director's level. The demand is there, but it has to be met in creative ways. Discounting is only a stop gap, a legitimate short term plug while the real marketing plan rolls is.

at 10/10/2006 05:58:00 PM

Primavera said...

friday morning concerts no longer have any relevance to today's audience if the attendance is so consistently meager. i have wondered for the past five years why they don't just change the friday morning concerts to sunday afternoon ones which seem to be very popular for all audience ages -- including families with children.

at 10/11/2006 12:34:00 PM

Anonymous said...

The problems are not limited to Friday concerts. There were no more than 1,000 attendees on Saturday night, 10/7. The CSO definitely needs some fresh and sweeping ideas with respect to marketing and just plain selling. It would also help if Maestro Jaarvi could loosen up a bit.

at 10/12/2006 10:34:00 AM

Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 10/12/2006 01:58:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Finally a spotlight shown on a problem that seemed to be only whispered about at intermission-declining attendence. Some random thoughts on on the 'why's" and "what" to do's-

-there seems to be a direct correlation between the rapid rise in ticket costs in recent years and declining attendence. Couple it with an aging audience and you have the makings of a long term disaster.
-increasingly stale programming doesn't set the stage to look forward to a night out at the Symphony for potential customers.
-since 2001 concerns for safety have done nothing but increase. Will the Drop-In center ever move?
-when will the CSO ever come into the 21st century and make the symphony experience an audio and visual event.
-with a staff with marketing and development functions numbering 23 people what is there to show for their efforts? They can only manifest the input they receive from above.
-with a board of directors that numbers 56 and a board of overseers at 70 just what fresh input are they giving to management as stewards of this institution to position it for the future?
-a realization that this is entertainment and the CSO is competing for a finite amount of entertainment dollars. It's a tough sell when the top ticket for a concert is $100.00 and the cheapest being in the low teens when one can go to a first run movie for $9.00. At the end of the the day they are both a single evening of entertainment.
-the problem that the hall is empty is not caused by the fact that the hall is too big just because it is the largest concert hall in the country. Believe it or not there are people that place the blame there!

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Until this organization is dragged into the 21st century and starts approaching its audience (customers) in that manner the decline will continue.

at 10/12/2006 02:43:00 PM

Primavera said...

I have to raise a question here which has been bugging me for some time now. Is the symphony programming hurt by the fact that anything remotely seen as "popular" programming gets chosen for the Pops? Other orchestras, without a "Pops" component, often integrate artists like Dave Brubeck into their regular programming. Also, as somebody who grew up in the 60s, where's the work by say, oh, Frank Zappa ("The Yellow Shark") or Steve Reich--or even Tan Dun, whom the Northern Kentucky Symphony had the brilliance to perform last spring (and Sarah Ioannides, Paavo's assistant conductor for the first few years, was also Tan Dun's assistant!). I mean I'm still waiting to hear Paavo's brother's group, Absolute Ensemble, play here. Give us some Michael Daugherty ("Dead Elvis") for crying out loud!

And the marketing. If I see one more dead-looking TAN t-shirt, i think I will hurl. Where's the Paavo blue? Where's a new Paavo t-shirt every season--or *some* new Paavo item? Would that we only could have the kind of infectious marketing that the Opera had back in the late 90s. Eye-catching, pithy, attention-getting...and bringing in new audiences.

at 10/12/2006 03:36:00 PM

Anonymous said...

More appealing programming for the baby boomers? How about Paul McCartney who has written several well received classical music pieces such as "Standing Stone". Why this hasn't been considered I don't know, but then maybe that would be too much "out of the box" thinking.
There is certianly more to be heard out there in the lexicon of music besides two Brahms Symphonies which opened this season. Both pieces were excellently done, but we had already heard them 11 and 12 months before. The second half of the program had been done about 3 years before. Familiarity breeds....familiarity. Sometimes I think I'm going to run out of the hall screaming if a hear another piece repeated one more time.

at 10/12/2006 03:50:00 PM

Primavera said...

Or how about bringing back Josh Bell to play the music from "The Red Violin"? When he was last here in 2002-03, he only was able to play the Friday night concert and had to cancel the Sat night/Sunday matinee due to his father's stroke. That score was a popular hot for him and audience accessible too.

Or maybe some music by Michael Nyman? I'd suggest bringing back Nigel Kennedy, but he's priced himself out of the market here for sure!

at 10/12/2006 06:49:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I think an orchestra needs a conductor that an audience can relate to... That might sound pedestrian. But perhaps to an audience of symphony afficianados, a silent, stalking conductor, devoid of personality and character might be welcome. But if the orchestra is trying to attract new samplers, get a conductor who is fun to watch, fun to be around, interesting for the audience; one who relates to the crowd. Keep attracting stoic Europeans with dry programming, don't be surprised when you don't attract new audience.
You want technical excellence with NO magnetism? Cobos, Jarvi. Good. Prepare for empty halls.
The orchestra management needs to completely work a new paradigm.

at 10/12/2006 10:10:00 PM

Janelle Gelfand said...

Sorry I had to remove the entire New York Times article that "Anonymous" posted earlier today, because of copyright. But here's the beginning of the post, with the opening graphs of the story:

Marketing is key; meeting audience needs rather than following the same rigid and unimaginative steps year after year, will fill seats. It is time for change. The following NYT article nails it:

Check the Numbers: Rumors of Classical Music's Demise Are Dead Wrong

By ALLAN KOZINN
Published: May 28, 2006
EVERYONE has heard the requiems sung for classical music or at least the reports of its failing health: that its audience is graying, record sales have shriveled and the cost of live performance is rising as ticket sales decline. Music education has virtually disappeared from public schools. Classical programming has (all but) disappeared from television and radio. And 17 orchestras have closed in the last 20 years.
All this has of late become the subject of countless blogs, news reports, books and symposiums, with classical music partisans furrowing their brows and debating what went wrong, what can still go wrong and whether it's too late to save this once-exalted industry. Moaning about the state of classical music has itself become an industry. But as pervasive as the conventional wisdom is, much of it is based on sketchy data incorrectly interpreted. Were things better in the old days? Has American culture given up on classical music?
The numbers tell a very different story: for all the hand-wringing, there is immensely more classical music on offer now, both in concerts and on recordings than there was in what nostalgists think of as the golden era of classics in America.

at 10/15/2006 07:22:00 AM

Anonymous said...

The symphony is wonderful and Music Hall is a great facility. My wife and I stopped going because of the people in the seats. Symphony seats aren't cheap and we were tired of having the performance ruined by incessant chatting and whispering by the people in the seats around us during the performance. The ushers just shrug when you complain.

We'd return if the management at Music Hall could get people to shut their mouths while the symphony is performing.

at 10/15/2006 09:17:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Perhaps one of the earlier posts presented the best question, in essence.
What is a marketing staff of more than twenty people doing?

At any corporation, a staff of ten or more would have multiple media rich programs going, and trying new things each and every concert, if necesssary.

Let's face it, there are too many cooks in this kitchen, whether it is staff or boards.Too many hands doing the same things as last season, or twenty seasons ago.

Let's clean house and show Paavo that we are serious about the future of Classical Music in Cincinnati....

at 10/15/2006 09:52:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Ok, I can't hold back on this one. Most of the comments on this page assume that marketing symphony concerts actually has a return on investment(from a revenue stand point) and that the only thing the CSO marketing folks need to do is have some TV spots and Symphony Hall will fill up. From past experience, I know that the cost of fundraising is way cheaper than selling tickets (with ROI on selling tickets often being a dollar for dollar proposition--it is a non-profit after all and most likely the CSO only gets 50% of its income from ticket sales), which illustrates the major challenge for symphonies.

Should the model change to be like the Art Museum--free all of the time and charge for special events? This will require a huge endowment, which the CSO's is not big enough to sustain this model yet. Along the same lines, I believe that the old model is dead. No one my age (thirties) is going to buy a subscription to 24 classics concerts for $2,000+. Perhaps a more contemporary model would be to ask me to donate $500 and get a pass to any concert during the season--sign me up!

I also think blaming the professionals who run the CSO needs to stop--these folks know that the model is changing nationally and are working everyday to deal with issues such as ticket sales and musician unions (which is a whole other issue that contributes to the outdated model).

And finally, for the record, I do not work for the CSO, but am an informed and passionate patron for the Arts.

at 10/15/2006 10:47:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

I think it's important to hear all sides of the issue and come up with constructive ideas that will bring people back to the symphony. The model of the Art Museum may not work with the symphony, which performs, needs and deserves an audience weekly. One suggestion: Why don't all the corporations that underwrite concerts -- and we hear their names at the opening of each and every concert -- encourage their employees to go and fill those seats? They could even have mini-events that would give their own people a chance to meet and network there.

at 10/15/2006 12:51:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I just posted comments on the subsequent subject about downtown in general and will not repeat those here. (Transportation, crime, etc.). I do believe that the programming of the Symphony is stale and is presumably the fare desired by those contributing $$. Not necessarily because they like it, but in true conservative fashion, they don't want to upset the status quo. Conservatives don't take risks. Bankers are conservative, insurance companies are conservative, and maybe the Board and contributors of and to the CSO are? I don't know.

I do applaud "Sandye" and her suggestions of this blog as to some newer music for younger audiences. I am in my fifties, well educated. But these are older art forms, pre-TV and movies, and so, while I don't propose to toss them out, they should be a more varied offering to at least give concert goers another reason to attend: fresh educational opportunity. Not the same two Brahms pieces, over and over, as someone else noted. We have warm milk as a pleasant substitute for those narcotics.

at 10/15/2006 03:25:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Please, a conductor, a leader with some kind of chemistry is needed... A young American who can relate to an audience as well as an orchestra.
If the CSO has any hope of renewing attendance, this is a key. I can listen to the radio and get the same experience as I get now with Jarvi...
Is anyone listening?? A CONDUCTOR WHO CAN RELATE TO AN AUDIENCE AS WELL AS THE ORCHESTRA.

at 10/15/2006 04:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Ladies and gents, the problem the CSO and other of the arts is that through our schools we are producing people who are artistically "illiterate" Too many of our young people have no exposure to the arts and precious little contact with them as well. Our students don't know a symphony from a timpani. Why, you may ask is that happening in a city "rich" in the arts. in our angst to pass these state mandated tests, participation in music activities has been pushed OUT. Students no longer have the opportunity to be in a band choir or orchestra. This city in the late 60's and early 70's was a musical "jewel". Students started in group activities such as choir and band in the elementary schools. From there, they continued participating at the junior high and then the senior high level. In the course of their progression, they became familiar with "classical music". They grew to appreciate it and to love it. Todays young people only know of music hall as a place to graduate and that is about it. It should be obvious there are only a handful of young people who go to Music Hall. Most likely if you find them at all, they are students who attended Walnut Hills, or SCPA. You can give away all the tickets you want, but the students will not come. In my 29 years of teaching, various organizations have donated tickets for students to see and hear the symphony. Most of them went into the trash, because the students "don't know nuthin' 'bout that". They MAY have attended a young people's concert while in elementary school, but more than likely, they were preparing for "THE TEST". Music has not been an important part of their lives. Indeed, the senior most important head of the large urban school district said at a public meeting :Why can't they take music AFTER school?" When I suggested that maybe they could take English or Science after school, I was met with a blank stare.
Until the artistic "elite" get with the program to insure that students have "hands on" expeirences in the arts, those crowds at Music Hall and the Aronoff will continue to shrink. The sad part is, there are those in that "culturally elite" who don't give a damn whether Cincinnati school kids participate in music at all. And when this generation dies off, so will the arts!

at 10/15/2006 08:30:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I wish everyone would pay attention to what Alan said. Our grandson thinks he is in a "band" and he plays the violin. I have never seen a violin in a band. I tried to take our grandchildren to a children's concert, and found out that the only way they can go is through their school. If their school doesn't support the Orchestra, the students don't go. Those concerts are in the morning, and it would have been preposterous for me to take the children out of school to go to a children's concert. I fault the orchestra for only having children's concerts through the schools, because they or the community is not going to support the extra activity.
Also it is very difficult to expose young children to the arts because everyone is so tied up with sports on the weekends and even after school. I am all for sports, but there is a chilren's theater and there is the Art Museum, and there is not time to take the children because they have to play soccer, basketball, baseball, because all the other children are playing, and they do not want to be left out.
If you are not given the opportunity to listen to this music as a child, it is hard for a lot of adults to appreciate the music when they are older. Yes, some of the music may seem boring, but the more one is exposed, the more one comes to enjoy and appreciate the music.
I for one, am very upset with changing Music Hall. It is very beautiful inside, something people should be thankful to have and appreciate, especially with the chandelier, which doesn't seem to be down much anymore. But music is something one learns when they are growing up and taking choir, band, and orchestra out of the schools does not make a well-rounded person.
It is ashame that having such a wonderful orchestra and conductor is not appreciated. There are a lot of cities that cannot afford to have this, and we should appreciate them.
Also, members of the orchestra could be interviewed on the news, and guest artists could be interviewed. We have 1 1/2 hours of news every afternoon and special attention could be to interviewing even authors and actors coming to town. They do this in New York City, they could do it here!

at 10/15/2006 08:40:00 PM

Anonymous said...

My Wife and I are in our late 30’s and are frequent patrons at the CSO, as well as the Opera and CCO. I have been very distressed at the poor attendance of late, and have given some thought to the issue. I think that the CSO is facing several problems.

First, concerts simply start too late, 8pm on Fridays & Saturdays, and last a bit too long. You can see direct evidence of this by the amount of people who leave at intermission. Starting the concert at 7pm and ending by 9pm would be an improvement. You can still catch a late dinner at several restaurants at 9pm, but after 10pm you’re out of luck, unless you are willing to eat fast food.

Second, the marketing for the CSO is an absolute shambles. There is no marketing as far as I can see. When Mann Bukvic Olsen was handling the marketing for the CSO we had TV and radio ads, and the great ‘Bravo Paavo” slogan. As another poster points out, the only ‘marketing’ I have seen are direct mail ads to previous concert goers. The management of the CSO simply must reach out to the tens of thousands of potential customers and entice them to come to the symphony. Young 20 and 30 something professionals might make a good target audience. How about free or discounted tickets for children? That might prompt people to bring their children to the symphony and expose them to classical music. Since music education has all but disappeared from public schools this might be the only means by which children get exposed to classical music these days.

The management should also look at some way of making the concert experience ‘warmer’ and more approachable for newcomers without compromising on the artistic integrity of the symphony. Perhaps having Paavo come out and address the audience and talk about the pieces before the concert might be one approach. Another thought is putting an ‘ABC’s of classical music’ (kind of a ‘classical music for dummies) segment in the program given out to patrons. This might make the whole notion of attending a concert less intimidating for novices.

Some symphonies, such as the Kansas City Symphony, are experimenting with ways to incorporate a visual element to enhance the auditory experience of the concert. Possibilities range from having visuals on flat screen monitors to renting wireless handheld devices that could allow users to view everything from lyrics to information about the composer, performers or the piece being played.

Shaking up the Symphony’s repertoire a little might bit be might not be a bad idea. Baroque music has enjoyed a revival of late and is hugely popular. Incorporating some baroque symphonies would be a very welcome addition to the CSO’s play list.

And to the poster who wrote that “the traditional romantic concert format is dead”, I would like to inform him or her that they are wrong. Many symphonies are showing major improvements in attendance. The Oregon Symphony has had record breaking attendance this year. The Detroit Symphony Orchestra has posted record revenue and ticket sales increases this season. The Chicago Symphony’s attendance is up by nearly 10%, and they are regularly at 85-90% of capacity. The Alabama Symphony Orchestra has had a dramatic increase in attendance over the past two years. Opera attendance in the US is the highest it’s ever been, and there is good news about the sales of classical music. This is another passage from the NY Times article “Check the Numbers: Rumors of Classical Music's Demise Are Dead Wrong “:
http://tinyurl.com/y6f2sc

“Has American culture given up on classical music? The numbers tell a very different story: for all the hand-wringing, there is immensely more classical music on offer now, both in concerts and on recordings than there was in what nostalgists think of as the golden era of classics in America.

In the record business, for example, it can be depressing to compare the purely classical output of the major labels now with what the industry cranked out from 1950 to 1975. But focusing on the majors is beside the point: the real action has moved to dozens of adventurous smaller companies, ranging from musician-run labels like Bridge, Oxingale and Cantaloupe to ambitious mass marketers like the midprice, repertory-spanning Naxos.

Similarly, someone shopping anywhere but in huge chains like Tower or Virgin might conclude that classical discs are no longer sold. In reality the business model has changed. Internet deep-catalog shops like arkivmusic.com offer virtually any CD in print, something no physical store can do today. The Internet has become a primary resource for classical music: the music itself as well as information about it.
On Apple's iTunes, which sold a billion tracks in its first three years, classical music accounts for 12 percent of sales, four times its share of the CD market. Both Sony-BMG and Universal say that as their download sales have increased, CD sales have remained steady, suggesting that downloaders are a new market, not simply the same consumers switching formats. “

Something else that is obvious is that action needs to be taken to make the hysterical suburbanites feel safe in the area around Music Hall. A larger and more prominent police presence is absolutely needed. Perhaps having a cadre of the Downtown Ambassadors in the area (it has helped Downtown) along with closer/cheaper/safer parking would help make the pusillanimous denizens of the suburbs more open to attending the symphony. All I know is that the CSO has to do something, and has to do it PDQ or we are going to lose this valuable institution. There is no way that Paavo is going to renew his contract with this kind of attendance, and his loss would be a major blow to the CSO, and the area as a whole.

And to the poster who wants an American conductor with bling; One of the only reasons that the CSO is in good shape financially is due to the positive sales numbers their recordings are generating. Putting some glamorous clown in front of the symphony will kill the CSO in a hurry. Talent has to come first.

at 10/15/2006 11:21:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Needless to say I wish I knew how to increase the audience. As Alan said, early exposure is key.

I do know know having the appropriate physical setting is essential. A hall should have even, balanced accoustics and should make the musical experience immediate and intimate for both players and listeners. Music Hall meets none of those criteria: Put 1,800 people in Music Hall and the space is half empty.

Finally, a hall cannot be an island. It should be a cornerstone in a safe, vibrant, energetic neighborhood... Hello, Blue Ash?

at 10/16/2006 12:43:00 AM

Unknown said...

You asked a good question:"What's wrong at symphony?" (October 15, 2006). I'm reminded of Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men" regarding Cincinnati Symphony President Kenneth Goode: "You can't handle the truth!"

To wit, earlier this year, I submitted my credentials to Kenneth Goode, for a Marketing & Promotion position he had advertised. I received a cowardly letter stating that he just didn't see a fit. Perhaps a visit to an Optician is in order. Of my 16 years experience in broadcasting as a general assignment reporter and a news anchor in the Southwest, 8 of those years were spent at a Classical music radio station; 3 of those years were spent as an architect of a turnaround team charged with executing my plan to salvage the failing FM Classical station. By employing "break the mold" marketing and high impact/high visibility strategies aimed at lowering the demographic and demystifying Classical music as belonging only to privileged upper-crust patrons in society, we turned in the following results: Annual revenues rose from $1.5 million to $2.7 million; our Arbitron ratings soared from #27 to #15 and our market share among 66 AM and FM stations rose from 1.5 percent to 3.0 percent. This was the Number 7 of 211 markets measured by Arbitron. Cincinnati stands at Number 27. So, while I worked in a market 20 times larger than Cincinnati, Mr. Goode "saw no fit". I find that amusing. How can I afford to be amused you ask? At the time of my tenure as Director of Marketing & Promotions, there were only 24 full-time Classical Radio stations left in the United States. I was profiled in Billboard Magazine for employing Rock and Roll strategies to rebrand, and reimage the station. We hired Howard Stern's Agent, the legendary Don Buchwald to record 300 "stagers" and ID positioning statements. We reeled in the on-air staff to make the station "personality-driven". In short, our turnaround team of 4 people (including myself) worked 14 hour days/6 days a week and turned the station around 7 months ahead of my 4-year forecast. And we accomplished this with Leadership.

At the risk of sounding like Senator Ted Kennedy grilling Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, my question would be this: "Mr. Goode, when are you going to resign?"

at 10/16/2006 07:14:00 AM

Anonymous said...

A younger and more diverse audience. There are load of people out in the sprawl who are young enough to not be overwhelmed by the experience of traveling to Music Hall. They and their kids can be the next generation of concert goers. Promote them. Fusion and cooperation with other music and arts organizations in the city. A more daring rep (may hurt for a while.. but that's where the audience is going to be).

at 10/16/2006 07:48:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Thank goodness people are linking our social problems (Alan, Craig) rather than thinking linearly. We discuss education (often shallowly) as one problem in our society and transportation as another, etc. In fact, Americans of all ages and stripes used to be a bit more of the Renaissance types. I loved singing in elementary school, but really, I can't carry a tune in a bucket. But I know about it and can talk about it and love to watch others do it.

To further link developments which we might otherwise think of as occuring in a vacuum, I believe that the reason sports takes center stage when artistic pursuits are eliminated in our schools, is to develop a competitive spirit, popularity, and a team mentality in order to rear children to fit in - that's economically (read survival)sound in a country that is haivng its financial well being undermined by other influences better discussed on other blogs.

We do better moving quickly in a straight line to a "goal" - pigeonholing and fitting into an office cubicle.

Anyway, I'm now REALLY straying off topic, but our educational system really worries me.

Thanks for the opportunity to post.

at 10/16/2006 08:58:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Cheers to Michael for his post. I don't blame him for crowing about his experience. Perhaps it hit the nail on the head - and threatened the current management. Interesting, I also know someone with quite interesting skills who was brushed off by the management as "not a good match".

I think it is obvious to most people that no one item is the "magic bullet" here.

Recently, I asked a symphony staffer about security around Music Hall and they said that this issue had been taken care of...

Perhaps it was, to their satisfaction. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a positive change in theperception of a long time audience, or suburban dwellers to back that up.

Music Hall is a beautiful venue, and it's a cornerstone of the community. Forget trying to move the CSO to the burbs and focus on some successful marketing!
We can do this!

at 10/16/2006 09:56:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I think Paavo is doing a great job with the CSO--far, far better than Cobos ever did. However, I too am tired of the same old repertoire and rising ticket prices. Once I went to about half of all of the concerts offered in a season; now I go to maybe one or two. If I want to hear Brahms, I can stay home and listen to a great CD. Bring me something new and affordable.

at 10/16/2006 10:10:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

I received this e-mail over the weekend from Bob and Carole Williams about their Music Hall concert experience on Saturday night:

Your review of Friday night's concert was right on target. My wife and I were in attendance because we have followed Hilary Hahn over the years since
we winter in Vero Beach, Florida where Hilary's grandmother lives. During her frequent visits to VB Ms. Hahn played with our Atlantic Classical Orchestra so we have been privileged to witnessed the development of this terrific talent. Two weeks ago we attended a Pittsburgh Symphony concert
which was also highly enjoyable. In my view both orchestra's are very good and the venues first rate. But there is an important difference.

Here is what happened to us. We taxied to the concert from the Embassy Suites in Covington and during the trip asked the driver to return for us after the concert. He readily agreed but then stated, "you know as soon as
many of us make a hundred dollars we go home." Should have know there was a message there. Anyway, after the concert we went outside thinking some drives were still working but to our amazement not one single cab appeared.
Several people were looking for rides so we asked a policeman for guidance. She directed us back into the Hall where a volunteer made a call in our behalf. One cab showed up and was taken by another couple. This all took
time and we finally found ourselves as the only ones without transportation. Since downtown was only four or five blocks away I suggested we walk to a
hotel and catch a ride. Police and concert workers alike were adamant in their view we should not, "walk through this neighborhood at night." Our
salvation was, Volunteer Alice who waited across the street in her car (apparently concerned for our safety) and took us to a hotel were three cabs were available. We finally returned to the Embassy Suits at 11:30 pm. remembering little about the fine concert but telling anyone who would listen about our "Cincinnati" experience. The near universal response was, "yes, we have major problems here."

We will pass this on to Orchestra Management who ought to be able to get one of the local cab companies to commit to some kind of arrangement. I hope
you will also encourage some positive action as well. Sadly, the larger problem won't go away easily and will require fundamental change which won't
happened during my lifetime. Many years ago (after graduation from OSU) I lived, worked and really enjoyed Cincy but in the future our concert attendance will be in Pittsburgh, Vero Beach or another city where personal security is not a major issue.

Sincerely. Bob and Carole Williams

at 10/16/2006 11:56:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I was there this weekend for the concert. Amazing. The violinist was such an inspiration! The cadenza? Fabulous. I cried for Romeo and Juliet. Truly, beautiful.

The reason, however, that my peers who are also 25-years-old do not go to the symphony is because you NEVER hear about it anymore! They didn’t even know the symphony season had started. We need to hear Bravo Paavo on the radio and television!!!

As far as safety, I have yet to have any problems ... and I am a downtown resident. It is more a perception than a reality. The crime that exists in Cincinnati exists because people have asked for it – it’s not random. Be smart, be safe, be courteous, and stay away from drugs.

at 10/16/2006 01:52:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Three Ideas to Increase the Attendance:

1. Reduce ticket prices.

2. Push for quality music education in the schools.

3. Perform a higher quantity of orchestral music by living composers. Orchestral music should be a "living" art not a "dead" one.

at 10/16/2006 03:23:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Some of these comments are fairly naive in my opinion. Lowering the cost of ticket prices sounds so easy. Take however, into consideration the fact that ticket prices are so high because of the demands placed on the orchestra by the musician's union. Filling the house with the regular price ticket every weekend could not even make a dent in the weekly musician's payroll. There is alot of money that needs to be raised in order to make this expense aside from ticket sales. In order to "lower" ticket prices someone would have to sponsor this in order for the orchestra to not lose income. Sad. If you love the orchestra so much, why don't you - the patron, who is complaining about it simply sponsor someone or someones to attend who normally would not or could not afford it. And please, stop complaining about composers who are dead. Elvis is DEAD and we listen to him. Yes, I think the staff should be rehauled at the CSO. It is a terribly unhealthy organization internally, headed by someone who has been there for close to 3 decades. His burn out is so high, that he is practically paralyzed by his own inertia. The staff is highly affected by this sad lack of vision and energy. As for the music director, there are so many young energetic fellows out there that have completely give new vision to second tier orchestras. John Morris Russell with the WIndsor Symphony(tossed aside by the CSO) and David Wiley who has given the Roanoke Symphony and Long Island Philharmonic new life. Because the CSO is top tier orchestra it feels the need like all of them to fill it with a celebrity who demands a million dollar salary for practicing art for arts sake. So many orchestras are paying a high price for their music directors in more ways than one. I think part of the annual review for a music director should be whether or not he is a box office draw and if he is not - he is out of there. But back to the Musician's Union. If the members of the orchestra want a job, maybe they should think twice about their vision as opposed to their paycheck and if the union truly has been a benefit or a tragedy to their artform.

at 10/16/2006 04:05:00 PM

Primavera said...

I sympathize with the problem that Bob and Carole Williams had regarding taxis after the concert. As someone who doesn't drive, I either go with friends, have taken the bus, or, after a concert, have relied on taxi service.

What is not well-known is that the volunteer in the cloakroom off the main lobby will be happy to call for a taxi for you at intermission, so it will be there waiting for you at the end of the concert. You may remain inside the lobby doors of Music Hall until the cab arrives.

And thank God for dear Alice. She is a sweetheart in more ways than one!

at 10/16/2006 04:25:00 PM

Primavera said...

Regarding Tom Tsuchiya's suggestion of "push[ing] for quality music education in the schools"--this is the biggest reason that I have never been a big supporter of SCPA. Have the arts in the Cincinnati Public Schools been eliminated with the exception of the programs at SCPA? Just because someone has no big plan to become a "star" doesn't mean that they still can't benefit from exposure to art and music. They are not FRILLS, they are part of what gives richness and dimension to our lives.

I like the slogan that Paavo's new Frankfurt orchestra unveiled last week: "Classical music is not music for an elite, but for everyone!" If only we had the same attitude here.

Let's face it. Classical music is intimidating when you haven't been exposed to it before and Music Hall is a grand and imposing structure. Whatever happened to that street festival idea that was supposed to coincide with Paavo's first concerts in 2001? I mean, I know what happened to it (9/11), but it's still a good idea and one that the opera has successfully used for its Community Open Dress Rehearsals for years now. So DO an open dress rehearsal, with a free food cookout in Washington Park beforehand and distribute free passes to people in the neighborhood. Maybe, just maybe, it might be a good way to make new friends and supporters, too.

at 10/16/2006 10:29:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Well said Rick. we cannot cave into the hysterical, panic-driven suburban Philistines. Music Hall is a true Gem with wonderful acoustics. We must preserve both the CSO & Music Hall,

at 10/17/2006 10:22:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 10/17/2006 10:41:00 AM

Anonymous said...

You wanna know whats wrong with the staff of the CSO? It's simple, they are afraid of change.

As long as you have the SAME people there you will get the same problems.

The marketing department, when was the last time there was a NEW, vibrant director who wasn't afraid to try NEW things?

The development department, you will never get change unless you get someone who has a personality. Someone who will reach out to the community and the community reaches back to the CSO.

The problem is NOT the price of the ticket or the location of the product, but rather the people pushing the product. Step into the 21st century and out of the 19th century.

As far as "blaming the professionals who run the CSO needs to stop--these folks know that the model is changing nationally and are working everyday to deal with issues..."

Well who would you blame then? Maybe we should blame the bengals, they seem to sell out. Maybe blame XU or UC for having a marketing department? Think about it, what has changed at the CSO? NOTHING, we still have the same people there that got them in debt in the early 90's and a again a few years ago. At any other company/organization they would have been fired, but nope, they keep them around.

Quit being like the rest of Cincinnati and afraid of change. If the current system isn't working, obviously changing can't really hurt you that much more......

at 10/17/2006 10:50:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

Oops, I got east and west mixed up; here's my corrected post!

Well said, Rick and Richard. Remember what Ed Stern said a couple of weeks ago -- when people stop coming downtown, that will be all of our obituaries, meaning all of the arts. The "arts" have always been in city centers. I shudder when I think of what a board president said to me a few years ago -- he was thinking that the CSO should become a "regional" orchestra like Louisville or Dayton, because the city just can't support a major orchestra any more. That would awful, in my opinion, and luckily it has not happened. But it wouldn't hurt if the symphony revived its "Area Artist" series, that took the orchestra to Lebanon and beyond. Part of marketing -- and I completely agree with the remarks about the opera's success -- is exposure, exposure, exposure.

Another thought, about the dilemma that the Williams had finding a taxi after the concert -- why not have a volunteer committee of the CSA station people at each door to make sure everyone is safely to their cars and no one gets stranded? Remember my Music Hall story (Showdown at Music Hall, March 26), in which the police told me that the worst crime "hot spots" in the city were EAST of Music Hall, and one of the worst is in front of the Drop-Inn Center? I would never send people walking in that direction at night. However, WEST of the hall (the side of the WGUC/CET parking garage) is absolutely safe. Thank goodness for Alice, but how can we rely on a good-hearted 80-year-old to be there when we need her??

at 10/17/2006 11:14:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael Manning I would have thought your years of marketing experience would have made you smart enough to realize that KEN GOODE is the DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR (who oversees the fundraising department) not the MARKETING DIRECTOR or PRESIDENT that oversees marketing. That might explain why you didn't get the job and why you are looking for one.

at 10/17/2006 11:23:00 AM

Anonymous said...

If Ken Goode is the Development director, why would he be posting an ad for a "Marketing & Promotion position" ?

The bottom line as to why Mr. Manning probably didn't get the job is b/c he has new ideas. The new ideas would not go well with the old ideas that Mr. Goode has.

at 10/17/2006 11:51:00 AM

Janelle Gelfand said...

Ok, folks, let's ditch the personal issues and stay with the task at hand: SAVING OUR SYMPHONY.

Thanks to all of you (especially Craig Hochsheid, Sandye and George Corneliussen) for your insightful comments

at 10/17/2006 11:57:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Janelle, this isn't meant to be personal, etc.

In all honesty, the way to save the Symphony is simple, there needs to be change.

The product is old and needs to change. Product meaning who is at the CSO. Not the music, Paavo, or "age". The product as in employees and thats not personal.

Look at a company that is run as a business, if the CEO does not lead it's shareholders to profit, what happens? The CEO gets removed and they get someone who will lead them to profit. Just b/c the CSO has a Non-Profit status, it still needs to be looked at as a business. The current CEO/managers are out of ideas, etc. We need change to save OUR Symphony.

at 10/17/2006 01:00:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Janelle,

Agreed, we should remain civil on this forum and stay away from personal attacks. However I think that the CSO's attendance is in such critical condition that radical action is called for.

It is obvious to everyone that the CSO's marketing isn't working, not by any stretch of the imagination. IMHO it is well past time to completely overhaul the entire marketing model the CSO is using. That likely entails replacing the senior marketing staff. They are not getting the job done (again, not by any stretch of the imagination), and leadership with fresh perspectives and a new vision are urgently required.

The anonymous poster on 10/15/2006 at 9:52:32 AM (who clearly is a CSO staffer despite their statement to the contrary) wrote about a lack of a return on investment (ROI) when marketing to sell tickets and asserted that fundraising is cheaper and easier than working to sell tickets. This is exactly the horse and buggy mentality that has lead to a nearly empty Music Hall and an elderly audience. We have to start attracting a new audience to the Symphony. The marketing ROI is not going to completely pay off this year or next year, but rather 5, 10 and 20 years down the road.

at 10/18/2006 08:55:00 AM

Anonymous said...

It has been over a week now since this blog entry relating to the lack of attendance at the Symphony was first posted and there has been lots of input from lots of sources and I'm sure has been read by even more.
We all wrote and read because we care enough to want to have a longstanding institution continue. Now we have to ask ourselves what can we do as outsiders attempt to accomplish change to the inside from the outside? Obivousily market forces are not the answer since that is driving the whole discussion-low attendence and it long term effects. What can we do to increase pressure on those who are stewards of this public institution? Here are some random thoughts-
-a website to centralize the activities of those who wish to bring about change in the CSO and how it is positioned in the community in order to enhance the attendance and appreciatiion of what it can bring to the community and those who partake.
-letter and e-mail writing efforts to the various boards and board members as well as symphony management who the ultimate responibility rests to bring about added pressure.
-attendence at public meetings (if there are any)that relate to the Symphony
-letters to the local media stressing the ongoing need for change to save this community asset.
-Continued coverage of this issue in both city newspapers and the local broadcast media.
-ongoing coverage and dialogue on this very blog on this subject
-other ideas?...I'm going to defer to the other good people who provided their input on this subject because there was no shortage of out of the box, excellent thinking in the ideas that were shared on the blog.
As time has passed, and I mean years, it has become quite apperent to me that change is not going to originate internally with this institution, but will have to be driven from the outside so I guess it is up to us. The subject is now on the table. To the people who care what ideas do you have?

at 10/18/2006 08:57:00 PM

Anonymous said...

In response to the suggestion that contemporary music will draw bigger audiences.

I used to work at the CSO, and spent hours trying to figure out what drew audiences to one concert over another. I looked at the ten year period from 1990 to 2000 to see if I could find any factors that impacted audience attendance.
I found little correlation between artists, repetoire, etc. EXCEPT ... sadly, contemporary pieces drive audiences away in droves. (That, and Carmina Burana and James Galway are sure fire hits). So, I question whether programming newer works would draw bigger audiences.

That said, I think the CSO has a responsibility to program new works anyway -- a - because some of us want to hear it, and b -- because if new works dont get performed, people will stop writing them. Further, there's no reason to repeat the same old warhorses over and over; Mozart wrote a LOT of music!

One thing to consider, my dad told me that years ago,(c. 1948), the BSO put contemporary works on the second half of the program (the opposite of what most symphonies do these days). Those who didnt want to hear them went home, and college students like my dad filled in their seats. It's a thought.

One other thought, with respect for Steve Deiters, a friend, scholar and gentleman, Music Hall is too big for the size of the region, especially with concerts every weekend. Lincoln center's philharmonic hall seats c. 2500, and there are 8,000,000 people in NYC alone. Even the NY Phil doesnt sell out the hall most of the time. So how is the CSO expected to fill Music Hall? Still, I agree 400 is sad.

at 10/19/2006 02:43:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Keith, With all due respect to you, if you believe that all you have read on this forum "is just swatting-at-flies and hand-wringing" than I would suggest that you must have a reading comprehension problem. There have been many detailed and well informed suggestions made by posters on this forum, not the least of which has been the justified criticism of the marketing campaign (or lack thereof) conducted by the CSO.

The core of the attendance problem is not Music Hall. The Cincinnati Opera sells out nearly its entire season at Music Hall. Also, the CSO’s attendance actually increased in the years between 2001 & 2004, in the immediate aftermath of the riots, the hub of which occurred directly across the street from Music Hall. It was right after this period that the CSO severely cut back its marketing and advertising campaign and implemented a 25% plus price increase. Are you able to connect these dots together?

Your suggestion of abandoning Music Hall and embarking on a quixotic pursuit for a new CSO location costing tens of millions of dollars is both short sighted and foolish. We would still end up with the symphony playing to an empty house in a few years when their current audience dies off and then we would be left with yet another expensive, empty building on the riverfront. Just like the Freedom Center.

Leaving OTR and moving further south is not going to save the CSO. The Aranoff Center is rarely ever filled to anything near capacity, nor is the new Contemporary Arts Center (rather an apple to oranges comparison I know, nonetheless it’s true). And the riverfront is no magic bullet for drawing crowds; if it were the Covington Landing would still be in business. While we're on the subject, as you do not seem to be aware of it, a developer has been selected to build The Banks, so that track of land is out of play.

You are also not aware of the fact that The Detroit Symphony Orchestra has posted record revenue and ticket sales increases this season (as well as the prior two) at their Max M. Fisher Music Center, which is located in a worse neighborhood than Music Hall is. It’s situated in the heart of dilapidated, crime plagued downtown Detroit.

You should visit downtown Detroit for yourself Keith, it’s a certifiable hellhole that has been completely abandoned and written off by the population of the Greater Detroit Region. This is the kind of fate that would befall Downtown if we were to follow your line of thinking.

The CSO urgently requires a complete overhaul of its marketing and advertising campaign, and they need to start reaching out to a wider audience. And they need to do it right now, before it’s too late.

at 10/19/2006 11:58:00 AM

Anonymous said...

How one can say that Music Hall is too big for the region is just crazy! Music Hall is not too big, there are plenty of people located in the tri-state area that would be willing to go there, you just need to reach out first.

The Marketing and Development department need a 100% complete overhaul. There comes a time when you need to start fresh. By starting fresh, get rid of EVERYONE in those two departments. Why keep around a director who has been doing the same thing time and time again? The directors tell their employees this is what direction I want to take.

Now I am not a rocket scientist, but to me that direction is wrong and has been wrong for some time.

If Mr. Monder would step up to the plate and take some action, BIG ACTION, there would be a rally around him to take the CSO to the next level. But as long as he keeps the same problems there, why should I try and help? Why should I go and buy a subscription or attend more individual concerts when that would just keep the Marketing and Developement people in their jobs longer?

The less people that attend, the more action you will get and sooner. Eventually the eyes of the Board, the President (Steven M.) will wake up. They will see the problem is not the location or the ticket prices, but just the people he has running the people around him.

Change is good, do not be afraid of it.

at 10/19/2006 01:48:00 PM

Primavera said...

here is another example of something which should have promoted, but wasn't (as far as i know anyway). WCET produced a video called "Paavo Jarvi's First Five Seasons with the CSO" (Brian O'Donnell of WGUC sits down for an indepth discussion with Maestro Jarvi, Music Director of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra - Runtime: 38 minutes) -- of course, the other problem is that WCET sees fit to only show the video on its WEBSITE, where, if you are a dial-up customer like me, you will be left with repeated buffering and frustration when you try to view it.

[to find it, scroll WAAAAAY down this page.

http://www.wcet.org/arts_culture/index.asp

there's no direct way to link to it!]

it's an aside, i know, but why, oh, why, does WCET ghettoize its local cultural programming to its website only?? even barbara kellar's little show for xpress cincinnati is only found there. where's today's local equivalent of "conversation with irma"? and wouldn't that add some dimension to local cultural activites that is lacking today?

at 10/20/2006 08:15:00 AM

Anonymous said...

The whole staff should be replaced.
Obviously the organization is afraid of change and that comes from the top. The blogger who stated that a corporation would have long ago let go of their CEO if things were this bad was absolutely right. Unfortunately for the CSO the status quo is good enough. So your not getting what unfortunately your paying thru the nose for. And that is creativity and the forward thinking that with taking risks at this point you have nothing to lose.

at 10/21/2006 01:41:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Gee, we can copy-paste. And it's in French, too. How impressive.

And the point is...

at 10/21/2006 02:13:00 PM

Janelle Gelfand said...

I would like to remind Voltaire that this is not a theological discussion, and any correlation between his letter to the author of "The Three Imposters" and our discussion about the symphony and Music Hall is oblique, at best.

There are some interesting suggestions here. Regarding Keith Michael's comments, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of building a new concert hall on the riverfront entirely, because the symphony has said from the beginning that if the planned renovations don't produce the desired effect (more bodies in seats) the orchestra would likely leave Music Hall. Where would they go? Everyone seems to be forgetting about the Emery, which is crumbling away, forgotten, but was once considered one of the finest venues in America, acoustically. The only other option would be to build a new hall. And if the orchestra left Music Hall, where would that leave the Opera and May Festival? I doubt that CAA (which runs the Aronoff Center and books shows in Music Hall) could fill all those dates vacated by the symphony.

The renovations are a bit risk-taking, because much of this hinges on whether the OTR development is a success, whether the Mayor can clean up crime in the area, and on and on. So the orchestra, opera, city and other shareholders will be putting money (likely, millions of dollars) into a building on the faith that all of the stars will line up.

at 10/21/2006 02:33:00 PM

Primavera said...

dear janelle,

i think this article from the international herald tribune about the recent renovation of la salle pleyel in paris is interesting in light of all the talk about the possible alterations to music hall:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/22/features/pleyel.php

abandoning music hall for a new venue would be like signing its death warrant. (and plopping it down on the riverfront to obstruct whatever views are left there is a highly unoriginal thought.) there is NOTHING that could fill up the dates left by the symphony's absence. and as for the CAA--they can't even book the aronoff's p & g hall for more than maybe half a year. the other theaters there are severely underutilized due to their high rental cost. all in all, the aronoff is dark more nights than it's open.

personally, i love the idea of a renovated emery. it's in the neighborhood and had been on the fast track for renovation until the aronoff project came along and knocked it out of contention. it has a great history with the cso (i mean it was good enough for stokowski, wasn't it?) and would be a perfect addition to that little arts district of ensemble theatre, know theater, the art academy, and all the little galleries along the main street entertainment district. hell, it might even help reenergize that main street strip, giving people somewhere to go AFTER the concert without having to drive someplace else. and maybe even encourage some more restaurant development around there.

at 10/22/2006 12:27:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I fail to see how moving to the Emery would help anything. It's just more rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

If you accept that Music Hall and its location are the root of the problem (and I DO NOT) then how on earth would moving to another location in OTR help the situation? For that matter how would moving to ANY location on the Downtown area help the situation? After all, as the argument goes, the provincial, chicken-hearted suburbanites are scared to go into Downtown at all. S where does that line of thinking lead, to the CSO moving to Mason, Florence, Union Twp or some other boorish exburb? Why not save us the time, expense and trouble and just shut the CSO down now.

at 10/22/2006 11:54:00 AM

Primavera said...

i never said i thought music hall's location was the problem--it's the size of the hall versus the size of the audiences. according to everything i've read, the emery's capacity, after potential renovation, would range anywhere from 1950-2300 seats. and it reportedly has perfect acoustics.

the fact that it also lies on the so-called walnut street "arts corridor" with the CAC, aronoff, library, art academy, and adjacent etc and know theaters, makes it a sensible possibility instead of throwing tons more $$ into a new project.

no matter how good the marketing (and it really NEEDS to be totally revamped!), we have to face the fact that this area simply cannot support a venue of almost 3400 seats for every symphony concert.

according to my unscientific survey, these are comparable US concert halls and their seating capacities:

Music Hall, Cincinnati, OH - 3,516
Bass Concert Hall, Austin, TX - 2,926
Jones Hall, Houston, TX - 2,833
Isaac Stern Auditorium, Carnegie Hall, New York, NY - 2,804
Louise M. Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco, CA - 2,743
Avery Fisher Hall, Lincoln Center, New York, NY - 2,738
Powell Symphony Hall, St. Louis, MO - 2,689
Symphony Hall, Boston, MA - 2,625
Symphony Hall, Chicago, IL - 2,500
Verizon Hall, Kimmel Center for the Performing Arts, Philadelphia, PA - 2,500
Kennedy Center Concert Hall, Washington, D.C. - 2,442
Kennedy Center Opera House, Washington, D.C. - 2,374
Walt Disney Concert Hall, Los Angeles, CA - 2,265
Schuster Performing Arts Center, Dayton, OH - 2,155
Severance Hall, Cleveland, OH - 2,100
Schermerhorn Symphony Center, Nashville, TN - 1,900

i'm just sayin'...

at 10/22/2006 05:00:00 PM

Anonymous said...

The CSO has not been good since David Crane announced his resignation.

at 10/23/2006 11:23:00 AM

Primavera said...

did anyone else see CSO board president rick reynolds' response to this thread on today's opinion page? while i'm sure he's a nice person and all, he just doesn't get what we're talking about here. the best he can do is defend the status quo and urge us to buy a ticket or two or three if we care. duh.

there was a good article in yesterday's pittsburgh post-gazette titled "Arts groups pursue tech's best features to enhance appeal" about a meeting at carnegie-mellon attended by 120 arts officials across the US "to look at the cutting-edge techniques for bridging the old world to the new, and drawing new people and energy to the arts."

"Web interaction is also helping drive new patrons to old arts organizations.

"Arts officials use their sites not only to provide information (on performances, artworks and so on) to current supporters but to woo tech-savvy young ones. From a business side, arts officials can use information gleaned from their sites -- such as what performances they buy tickets for and what events elicit the most comments -- to study what their patrons like.

"The give-and-take of information by site visitors develops a sense of ownership or commitment in what an arts organization is doing. The key is keeping the site fresh with blogs and other new material, to keep those interested new souls coming back."

Read article here

at 10/23/2006 01:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I did see Mr. Reynolds op/ed piece in the Sunday paper in response to the reprint of a portion of the blog comments of last week. It was pretty much a major denial of reality piece. Sometimes I wonder if those offices on Elm Street are operating in a parallel universe with a calcified oversite and management structure that is so rigid that they literally cannot see the forest for the trees. His observations were a lot of the "same old same old" with a passing observation that "we are concerned about attendence, but not alarmed". Will somebody please hit the fire alarm?!!! This is a major issue. Not only should they be concerned about the numbers themsleves, but the composition of the audience which is increasingly not composed of "young professionals" (which is a buzzword thrown around with almost too much regularity in this town these days) and families, but people who have been concert goers for years if not decades who now and will find it increasingly more difficult to come to concerts in the future. Who is being groomed to replace them ? That is the thurst of the problem and the light that we can't seem to get to light up in this organizations head.
There is also a passing reference to "the capacity of the hall" as an issue that needs to be addressed. The size of this hall is has nothing, let me repeat this nothing ,to do with ongoing problem when the size of the audience was at approximately 400 which prompted this discussion. If they really think that the size of the hall is the problem, I really doubt the capacity exists to bring the change that needs to be done to preserve, grow, and bring into the 21st century this organization that they have stewardship of.
The bottom line is this and I'll say it for the sake of repetition. As it currently is structured the CSO as a business model cannot even remotely begin to support itself let alone adapt to prevailing market conditions and until they shed themselves of this cocoon like thinking the end result is enevitable.
I would like to add to the blogger who commented earlier "Wake me up when it is over"-"Will the last person to leave turn off the lights".

at 10/23/2006 08:53:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I just read Rick Reynolds opinion piece from yesterdays Enquirer. He seems to be an astoundingly out of touch individual. Not only does Mr. Reynolds not have a clue about how to fix the attendance problem, the guy doesn't even seem to have a clue that there IS a problem.

It is sadly obvious that the CSO's Board of Directors is filled with dessicated, out of touch relics like Mr. Reynolds. Let us hope that he and his ilk soon go the way of the dodo bird-before the CSO does.

at 10/24/2006 01:00:00 PM

Anonymous said...

The lights can't be shut off soon enough. As long as Mr. Monder, the marketing department and development department are there, you will get the same old garbage spewed out a different way.

Time and time again they will say the same thing, just word it different. They are always working on something "new" but what is this "new" product that will get the patrons in?

Would the CSO ever consider doing stuff that would bring all types of people in? Would the CSO ever consider having a band like Metallica play with them for that CD that Metallica put out? Wasn't it the Boston pops(I could be wrong) that played with this band?

I am not saying you need to get a hard rock band like that at all to bring attention to the younger audience, etc. But what I am saying is that the CSO would NEVER eevn consider doing something like that.

They are stuck in this rut that they think Mrs. Corbett and Mrs. Nippert will continue to bail them out. What happens when these two fine lady's are gone? Who will the CSO expect to bail them out of their financial mess then?

Quit running the CSO like you are still in the 70's and 80's and run it like a business! If I don't do my job, I GET FIRED! If the marketing department and development department cannot do their job, FIRE THEM! Grow some hair for once and run this non-profit with the idea of you HAVE to make money to survive! Quit relying on the same old pointless ideas!

at 10/24/2006 01:02:00 PM

Anonymous said...

David Crane was not the solution to the problem, he was merely the bandaid while he was there. A very smart man he was, but he was stuck in the same situation everyone else there is. Steven Monder is president and the board is a bunch of people who haven't a clue as to what to do.

at 10/24/2006 09:57:00 PM

Anonymous said...

No,no really--it is safe downtown. Ask the guy who broke into my car Saturday nite. I'm sure he got away without a scratch.

at 10/25/2006 11:01:00 AM

Anonymous said...

BFD 'anonymous'. Last month myself and 3 of my neighbors had our cars broken into right here on one of the nicest, safest streets in Fort Mitchell. The police haven't caught anyone. Crime happens everywhere. Get over it.

at 10/27/2006 02:55:00 PM

Anonymous said...

BY ALL APPEARENCES IT WOULD SEEM THAT MANY OF THE PROBLEMS CITED BY PREVIOUS BLOGGERS HAVE TO DO WITH ADMINISTRATIVE PROBLEMS. AS IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE CSO MANAGEMENT OPERATES WITH AUTONOMY IT IS OBVIOUS THE BOARD NEEDS TO BE MORE INVOLVED.

at 10/27/2006 11:39:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Terry, of course crime happens everywhere but wouldn't you characterize your experience as an anomaly? Break-ins in and around Music Hall are not that unusal from what I've seen leaving concerts over the last 10 years. And, I might add, this is within a block of the police station.

at 11/01/2006 12:47:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Truth is, Symphonies all across the country must adapt and adjust to attract a whole new generation of concert goers. Classical music needs to feel tangible and accessible.

From the Top, the NPR radio show that features young classical musicians my be saving the future of classical. It's classical music without the attitude.
Taped live in front of a studio audience, particiapants are encouraged to clap and cheer loudly. The kids knock your socks off with their musical ability and then crack you up with personal interviews and skits. There is no dress code. Jeans and sneakers are encourged. The show is hosted by Christopher O'Riley whose hip attitude brings a breath of fresh air to the classical scene.

Check it out www.fromthetop.org

at 11/01/2006 02:22:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Janelle, this is the first time I have found your blog, and I must say it is wonderful. Unfortunately there is so much that I was unable to take it all in. I have to respond though about the couple from out of town that were told by staff that they were unsafe to walk downtown. It's about time that we start defending this neighborhood. Yes, we should have cabs available - but the neighborhood is filled with police before and after concerts and to have staff say absolutely not to walk south is terrible. There is surely a better way to handle that situation. My husband and I always, always, cross through the Park when coming to Music Hall. Have been doing so for 40 years, and the most that has happened is someone asking "what happened there tonight", "or hope you have a good night" - we definately need more people telling this type of experience.
My greater concern is the marketing of the CSO. They should hire Patty Beggs of the Opera for 5 minutes and she could make huge improvements. Also we feel strongly that the management has an attitude that those of us who are season ticket holders don't matter. What do we get for being loyal? A rose once a year. That's nice, but something is wrong when our tickets have skyrocketed and we have less concerts than we used to have - and - they are now either bunched together, or we go months without a concert in our series. Did anyone care that we liked the arrangement of going about once a month? Also, another subject, but don't get me going on Riverbend. How can we have a venue like that that has acoustics that are even worse than the Aronoff? We are music lovers, but can't stand the pain of either of those places to our ears. When is somebody going to do something about that place. We love going to the Berkshires in MA. We drive into the concert and park on grass - free - take our picnic, have it on the grass - includes wine - then go into the shed. Riverbend - pay to park a mile away, have your purse searched - now welcoming committee either, and such a horrible sound system that you don't know why you bothered.

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Sunday, October 08, 2006

What has happened to the symphony audience?

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