Classical Music: Dancing around the issue

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Dancing around the issue

If you have opinions about the Nutcracker moving to the Aronoff Center, as discussed in David Lyman's story today, please post them here.

Also, comments about the move began last month on this blog and have continued this month, on the post below.

36 Comments:

at 12/18/2007 12:45:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I read the article. It gives some concise observations of both the Aronoff and Music Hall-both positive and negatives. An unemotional look at the "whys" and "what fors"-a breath of fresh air for some of the dialog on this specific subject and this blog in general. With more rational thought like this who knows maybe some things can get pointed in the right direction with some new perpectives rather than that's the way we always have done it.

at 12/18/2007 05:09:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Well, I felt that Lyman's piece was extremely biased, at best. He started by referring to those who disagree with the move as mere "ranters"... We're disposed of in the first 30 words. The bulk of the article then goes on to tell us why moving to the Aronoff is an excellent tactic.

Honestly, the piece was offensive trash. Did Lyman write it or did Victoria Morgan dictate while he typed?

And as for the initial poster, this is hardly a matter of lamenting "the way it has always been done"... It is so much deeper than that. During a phase where the city is investing greatly to renovate the Washington Park area and in building a new SPCA, to pull a long standing performance out now is beyond reprehensible.

And Lyman states that Springer Auditorium is "too visually busy" for the ballet. Huh??
Man, this is reaching....

Bottom line: Morgan came up with a hundred reasons as to why Aronoff is superior. All of it is bunk.
Music Hall was just fine for over 30 years. Now it is inadequate?
This has more to do with Morgan than the inadequacy of the hall.
And shame on you, Blanch Maier. You should be more responsible than to dump on the crown jewel of performing spaces in this town.

at 12/18/2007 08:00:00 PM

Anonymous said...

When Music Hall is no more, it will be the same lamentation of New Yorkers forty some years ago when Penn Station disappeared.

at 12/18/2007 08:05:00 PM

Anonymous said...

That depends on what replaces it.

at 12/18/2007 09:30:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Obviously the Pops gets choice of dates and this last week had 5 Pops in order to entice many to attend a 3pm show.That is trying to get people to come down to Music Hall in OTR in daylight.

Which left no good hours for Nutcracker with many repeats too. Could be a scheduling headache.

But Music Hall is such a great asset, youngsters to see the magnificent Hall for a first time, it would remain in their minds forever.
Maybe this turmoil will bring better response next year, and there must be a next year.eM=M

at 12/18/2007 09:52:00 PM

Anonymous said...

As the writer of the piece in question, I want to thank you all for your comments, whether or not you agree with the article’s point of view. But rms . . . well, I feel the need to respond to you, because your comments are filled with bullying and misrepresentation. It’s the type of blogging that stifles conversation rather than encouraging it.
You object to the word “ranters.” (For what it’s worth, what I actually said was “ ‘Another nail in the coffin of Music Hall,’ ranted another,” referring to one of the earlier online posts.) But it was you who called yourself a ranter on 12/2/07 when you responded to another blogger with “Thanks for backing up my rant.”
As for Morgan coming up with a hundred reasons why the Aronoff is superior, she actually came up with one or two. The rest is me. That’s why my name is on the article. I wrote all of this as one who dearly loves Music Hall. As I wrote to another reader earlier today I made my ballet debut there. I sang in choruses there. I graduated from high school there. I saw Stravinsky conduct there. I heard Pavarotti give a recital there. So it has a cherished place in my memory. It is lovely and grand and a spectacular piece of architecture. But it was not built as a venue for theatrical productions. And even the renovations of the 1960s and 1970s could not erase those shortcomings.
Last, I’d love to know why you respond so rudely and aggressively to everyone who disagrees with you. In your words, my article was “offensive trash.” Earlier, you refer to Victoria Morgan’s point of view as a “ridiculous, pathetic spin” and you call her “clueless” and say “not sure what you are smoking.” If you have such intensely held convictions about Music Hall and the ballet and my writing, why not have the guts to identify yourself rather hide behind your initials? Even the playground bully has a face.

at 12/19/2007 08:29:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Memo to David Lyman:
Ditto & thanks for your response to "rms". Some of these bloggers get a little to "amped up" when open minded dialogue will suffice.

at 12/19/2007 11:48:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I will never understand why some people in this city are so absolutely, 100% resistant to change, regardless of the reason. I, for one, applaud the move, especially given the circumstances under which it was made.

at 12/19/2007 12:49:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Because change for the sake of change often does more harm than good...

And let me say that I agree with rms. I think he speaks for many, even if he does get a tad excited. I have been running into person after person who is upset over the move.

Is it so wrong to know and love tradition?

And furthermore, rms said that he is not arguing simply against change, but rather arguing that Music Hall is a much more suitable venue in which to see Nutcracker.

at 12/19/2007 01:07:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I so enjoy people like rms who, I'm guessing, have never run an arts organization, or faced the kinds of financial and artistic challenges that go with it, but are so exceedingly sure they are right about something because it's "tradition." To think that this decision was an easy one is ludicrous...any organization wanting to do anything in Music Hall must yield to the Symphony and Pops, then the Opera and May Festival. It's not bad...it's just the way it is. So if you can't get the time you need, you go elsewhere. And no self-respecting arts administrator would move locations and bitch about it...that would be counterproductive. Good for Victoria for doing what she has to do, and for David Lyman for putting together a very well balanced look at the situation.

at 12/19/2007 01:18:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Will "The Nutcracker" be better served by the move?
A pretty narrow view of some larger issues. Morgan is the artist in charge and her creative motives are not suspect.
One could argue about visual distraction presented by the proscenium, especially when you are talking about a classical piece being presented in a traditional manner. Unless the production has changed drastically since I saw it several years ago, we're not talking Martha Graham here. Notice the paintings at The Art Museum... some very ornate frames on the traditional stuff. The don't even have the advantage of an orchestra, brilliant lighting and people leaping about to focus our attention.
The scheduling and resulting financial imperative is cause for concern. Didn't the Pops discuss this with The Ballet?
The larger issue that we should question is the perception vs reality of OTR and The Music Hall area.I spend a good deal of time in and around OTR and it seems to me that getting to Music Hall is not an issue. There is parking located convieniently and safely near the hall. I will admit that the panhandlers can be a pain and I would much rather they cut it out.The truth is, I have also been approached on my way to The Aronoff and Oktoberfest.
But, OTR is going through a remarkable change. Crime is down... no question. New and rehabbed housing is cropping up all the time.New shops and old are operating on Vine Street. The Art Academy of Cincinnati, Ensemble Theater, Know Theatre and The New Stage Collective are successful, active arts institutions in the neighborhood.
Many developers are poised to add to the renaissance.
If you must, as a journalist,perpetuate the misperceptions about OTR, you should in the same piece point out the reasons that they are, in fact, misperceptions.
Each time unchallenged derogatory statements about downtown and OTR are made, those people unsure of using the city get a bit less sure.
Soon there will be pressure from performing arts spaces in Blue Ash and other outlying areas. Should our city really become a hi-rise office park with stadiums?
Also, David, toughen up old friend, rms is just being passionate. You get ink all the time... let blog flow.

at 12/19/2007 01:35:00 PM

Anonymous said...

What makes you people experts in theatre design, acoustics, and presentation? Because you've been going to see The Nutcracker every year? Give me a break. Sitting in the audience at a play makes you no more an expert in theatre than sitting in the stands at Paul Brown Stadium makes you an expert in football.

If the people in charge of the production have determined that Music Hall is not as suitable a venue as the Aronoff, and can back it up with tangible reasons why, then who are all of you to question that when all you can bring to the table is "other people say it's a bad move" and "it's tradition"?

Music Hall is a fantastic building - for MUSIC. Ballet is a visual art.

at 12/19/2007 02:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Nothing is going to replace Music Hall. It's the Yankee Stadium of concert venues.

at 12/19/2007 03:20:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Music Hall is a horrible place for MUSIC!

at 12/19/2007 03:36:00 PM

Anonymous said...

No, it is not. I love music at Music Hall. Does that make me a rube?

at 12/19/2007 04:34:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Before I address David Lyman's comments in detail, let's all take a moment to remember Nic Muni. He was one of the arts experts. He KNEW what was good for the company and for the people. And the company let him have at it.
Result: ticket sales dried up. The opera had to bag him and then work to get their patrons back.

So, to all the posters who propose that those of us not in the business ought not have a strong opinion, think again.

I just never ever got it when people tell me that I'm not in the business, so shut the hell up.
Doesn't work in sports. Doesn't work in the arts.
It is the audience that determines the success or failure of a program. It is the artistic directors' duty to determine what the patrons want and then give it to them. Muni shunned this. Muni gave us what HE wanted. HE got the shaft.
In a vacuum, artistic directors can do whatever they want.
Unfortunately, Morgan isn't in a vacuum.

at 12/19/2007 04:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I wonder what it will actually be like in the Aronoff? One thing that's missing in this discussion is the fact that it hasn't opened yet this year, so no one really knows.

Maybe the Cincy Ballet knows this is a major change to the environment and has made some changes to the production - could be an interesting adjustment. Anyone who attends tonight please fill us in!

at 12/19/2007 05:03:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Half of the joy of seeing the Nutcracker was the production itself. The other half was just being in Music Hall, decorated for Christmas, the grand foyer and the balcony, the people.
Sorry but the Aronoff has NONE of that charm. So, half of the experience is now gone.
One would think that this would have entered the equation somewhere.

This is all such a shame.

We are not all ballet afficionados; some of us just liked the Nutcracker and the Music Hall experience at Christmas time.

Poof. Gone.

at 12/19/2007 05:52:00 PM

Wes said...

Makes you wonder what kind of comments would have been generated if blogs had existed when the Opera moved from the Zoo.

I really don't have a dog in this fight - I'm just enjoying watching the comments.

WF

at 12/19/2007 11:03:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Put me in this column: the Nutcracker isn't about excellent ballet and fine seating and perfect wall colors and acoustics. It is about the total package. Music Hall has that.

at 12/19/2007 11:07:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Cincinnati Arts Association operates the Aronoff as it does Music Hall....both under the same umbrella so to speak.....the sterile, cookie cutter, god awful seating, who thought those colors went together, armpit of a theatre is a perfect place for the nutcracker....enjoy your new home!

at 12/20/2007 10:11:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Why doesn't everyone figure out the real reason for moving, the Nutcracker is the same one for at least the last 4 years and everyone who wants to see it has seen it. So with Aronoff being smaller it is easier to fil and it makes it look better. RMS for President

at 12/20/2007 11:14:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I just purchased tickets for the Schuster Center in Dayton for Nutcracker. Same kind of house as the Aronoff; but the company at least isn't thumbing its nose at the patrons.

I think it would serve Cincinnati Ballet a message if we all run up to Dayton for an enjoyable evening.

at 12/20/2007 08:14:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Going back a few posts.... Music Hall may be the Yankee Stadium of concert venues but you should know---Yankee Stadium's being replaced!

at 12/20/2007 09:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I am so sick of people making the location of Music Hall and issue...it's not. The opera sells out performances every summer. The CSO has a ton of performances and when is the last time you have ever heard of anything happening at a Music Hall event? You don't cause it is not an issue. The media hype is fuel by sensationalism and half truths. All of the organizations that use Music Hall go above and beyond to make sure everyone is safe...well except for the cheap bozos that decide to park 8 blocks away to get cheap parking......
Over the Rhine is going through some major changes and the ballet will be sorry they left for the cookie cutter aronoff....

at 12/21/2007 01:38:00 PM

Anonymous said...

If you park 8 blocks from Aronoff, you will have issues, just as when you park 8 blocks from MH.
Strolling 8 blocks anywhere downtown--well, better pack heat.

at 12/22/2007 11:39:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Uh, think the 8 block comment was sarcasm to make a point....

at 12/22/2007 03:13:00 PM

Anonymous said...

There was no sarcasm there.
I was merely stating a fact.

at 12/22/2007 06:44:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Please....I live downtown, and work in OTR area...walk everywhere....even at night sometimes...I am a 40 year old white female... I am still here and without incident....and I don't carry "heat" what an ignorant thing to say....Grow some buddy!!!!Yes, you need to be safe and smart but you act like OTR is a war zone...watch the 5pm news much....

at 12/22/2007 10:15:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Going back a few posts, yes it is being replaced across 161st. Street but it will still be Yankee Stadium.

at 12/23/2007 12:42:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Read Jay Springer's letter to the editor in Sunday's Enquirer. Apparently it is not just we, the unsophisticated rabble, who are upset about Nutcracker's abandonment of Music Hall.

at 12/26/2007 07:11:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Music Hall is part of the magic. Move it back.

at 12/30/2007 09:55:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Please bring Cincinnati's Nutcracker back to the Music Hall!

Experiencing the wonderful, annual performance there is truly nostalgic, and it is a beautiful slice of Cincinnati's history.

Plus, the stage is bigger (wider!) at the Music Hall, and that is why, I heard, the Nutcracker "sugar-plum parade" is only a memory of the Music Hall.

at 12/31/2007 10:41:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I saw the Nutcracker this past Saturday on it's final day at the Aronoff. I traditionally went to Music Hall to see it and was a little suprised to hear about the move. I thought it was just as good, if not better. I felt more involved and closer to the performance than previous years.

Funny enough, it was the conversation of folks sitting around me. There was talk about the decision to move. Who and why, etc... was it the Artistic Director of the Ballet or the new General Manager of the Aronoff who pushed it. It was very sophisticated talk in a snobish fashion. But, I give these fellow event-goers credit when one very blunt gentleman made a great comment. He said, "Who cares? I got to see the Pops with Manhattan Transfer and Kenny G... and now this here. Can't it be the new, great tradition that you can see shows at all the theaters and it just be busy downtown?".

I say - well said.

at 12/31/2007 11:19:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I read the above comment in two different blogs....got it the first time....

at 1/04/2008 12:41:00 AM

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous who posted at 09:55:00 pm on 12/30/2007

For what it's worth, the stage opening at the Aronoff is actually larger than the one at Music Hall.

According to the technical specs listed at the Cincinnati Arts Association, the width of the stage at the proscenium arch at the Aronoff is 53 feet 4 inches, while it is just 50 feet at Music Hall.

I'm guessing they seem different because the ceiling at Music Hall is so much higher.

I've seen the Nutcracker in both places and enjoyed them both. I guess I was there to see the dancing and the differences in the theaters didn't bother me.

Previous Posts

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Dancing around the issue

36 Comments: